Minister George Yeo's replies to the Parliamentary Question and Supplementary Questions on the Haze, 22 Nov 2010

TRANSCRIPT OF MINISTER FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS GEORGE YEO'S RESPONSE TO THE PARLIAMENTARY QUESTION ON THE HAZE, 22 NOVEMBER 2010

QUESTION:
Mr MICHAEL PALMER: To ask the Minister for Foreign Affairs what steps the Ministry intends to take to obtain a binding and enforceable commitment from Indonesia for the reduction and ultimate eradication of the haze caused by the rampant burning of the forests in Indonesia.

REPLY:

1 As we heard from Minister Yaacob, last month, Singapore was again seriously affected by smoke haze from forest and peatland fires in Sumatra. There was a day when the Pollutant Standards Index hit the "unhealthy" range. The haze affected not only people in Singapore and Malaysia. It affected most the people in Indonesia who lived closest to the fires. The haze is therefore a matter of very serious concern to us, to the Indonesians and to the entire region.

2 On 21 October, Minister Yaacob called his Indonesian counterpart, Pak Gusti, to convey Singapore's concerns over the haze and to offer our assistance to combat the forest fires. I spoke to Foreign Minister Pak Marty Natalegawa the following morning to reiterate our concerns and our immediate readiness to assist Indonesia. Pak Marty told me that he was also concerned about the situation and assured me that the Indonesian authorities were trying to address the problem. And he stressed the importance of regional cooperation and how it had helped in the past.

3 The problem is over for this year, in part helped by the wet weather. When I was in Hanoi for the ASEAN Summit and other related meetings, I thanked Pak Marty for Indonesia's cooperation. Given that the haze does not respect boundaries, it is imperative that regional countries continue to work closely together on this issue. Singapore and Malaysia have been collaborating with the provincial governments of Jambi and Riau respectively on various fire and haze prevention programmes. The Sub-Regional Ministerial Steering Committee (MSC) on Transboundary Haze Pollution also meets regularly. These efforts have helped to mitigate the haze problem in the last three years. But our experience this year shows that more needs to be done.

4 The problems faced by the region from the haze led to an ASEAN Agreement on Transboundary Haze Pollution. The Indonesian Government signed this Agreement in the year 2002 but, unfortunately, has yet to ratify it. It has to be ratified by the Indonesian House of Representatives (DPR). Although the executive branch of the Indonesian government considers the Agreement important, some members of the DPR have objected to it on the grounds that Indonesia does not benefit sufficiently from this Agreement. It is hard to understand this argument. To begin with, Indonesians living in Sumatra and Kalimantan who are badly affected by the smoke haze will benefit most from the Agreement. We need Indonesia to take the lead on this issue when it takes over the ASEAN Chairmanship next year.

5 The haze is not only a local or regional issue. It has a global dimension as well. The reduction of emissions from deforestation and forest degradation is an important element of ongoing climate change negotiations under the Bali Action Plan called REDD Plus - REDD standing for Reducing Emissions from Deforestation and Forest Degradation, and Plus referring to the role of conservation, sustainable management of forests and enhancement of forest carbon stocks in developing countries. Indonesia is an active participant in REDD Plus. The donor countries of this initiative have pledged substantial amounts of money, both multilaterally and bilaterally, to help forest nations reduce deforestation. An example of this is the US$1 billion bilateral agreement between Norway and Indonesia. This bilateral agreement requires very close monitoring, reporting and verification to ensure that the objectives of REDD Plus are met. At the broader level, Indonesia has also announced a voluntary carbon emissions reduction target of 26% by 2020, and up to 41% with international support. These emissions reductions are slated to come, in large part, from the forestry sector. Such efforts by Indonesia to reduce its emissions from deforestation will also help to reduce unsustainable land clearing practices which cause the haze.

6 For these reasons, we hope to see Indonesia ratify the ASEAN Agreement on Transboundary Haze Pollution soon as it benefits Indonesia, ASEAN and the wider world.

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TRANSCRIPT OF MINISTER FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS GEORGE YEO'S REPLIES TO SUPPLEMENTARY QUESTIONS ON THE HAZE, 22 NOVEMBER 2010

SPEAKER: Mr Palmer.

MR MICHAEL PALMER (PASIR RIS-PUNGGOL): Sir, I would like to thank the Minister for his reply. Thus far Indonesia's plan of action on the haze seems to focus on putting out fires rather than preventing them. Do we know what their plans are to prevent the fires and to penalise the perpetrators who cause the fires? And also this delay in ratifying the Transboundary Haze Agreement - is this a sign of their seriousness? Perhaps we can convey to the Indonesians that they should try harder to ratify this Agreement.

MINISTER: We will of course try hard to encourage them to do what is possible. It is not as if they don't have the plans: they have the plans. In previous years, they have made quite big efforts. In fact, just two days ago, I gave a breakfast to GOLKAR Chairman Aburizal Bakrie. Pak Bakrie used to be the MENKO or Coordinating Minister for Socio-Political Affairs. He was responsible for helping to combat the haze. He was telling me how, in one of those years when the haze was quite bad, they got the Russians to help and they leased water bombers from the Russians. And against the advice of the civil aviation authorities, he decided to take a joy ride to watch the water bombing. The facilities on the plane were quite basic. He was telling me there were no seat belts, just a plastic chair and you're supposed to grab the pilot's seat while they skim the water surface, collect the water and then bomb the fires. And this worked. When I spoke to Marty on the phone, he said cooperation in the past had helped and we should continue to strengthen cooperation. He said yes, this year is a problem, but in previous years we have succeeded, so we should continue to work together. They have the plans. It's a big country, there are many players involved. Local authorities experience great difficulties. And it's not as if they themselves want it to happen. The former Governor of Jambi, Pak Zulkifli Nurdin, is a good friend and knows Singapore very well. One year I called him up and said, look, we're prepared to help Jambi. I asked him where he was. He said he was in Jakarta and couldn't get back to Jambi because the haze was so bad there! And here we're talking about a PSI of 100, but for them it's PSI of 200 or 300. So our approach should be that the most interested party in solving the haze problem is Indonesia itself because millions of old people are affected. And we should continue to encourage the DPR - the government is very clear about its position, but the DPR has got a life and voice of its own and maybe here I can pass the buck to members of this house. When you meet your counterparts in Indonesia, please also make the effort. Thank you.

SPEAKER: Mr Low.

MR LOW THIA KHIANG (HOUGANG): Sir, the Minister in his reply said that the haze is over for this year. How about next year? Or the year after that? Despite the efforts of the Minister such as in talking to his counterpart in Indonesia, it seems to me the haze remains smoky and the situation hasn't improved. Does the Minister not think that this is a diplomatic failure on the part of Singapore, as well as ASEAN as a group? And how does this reflect on ASEAN as a group in the international community?

MINISTER: Mr Low is right that diplomatically, we certainly hope to be more successful but there are limits to what we are able to do. It doesn't mean that if we make stronger speeches or internationalise the issue, that we will necessarily help solve this problem. I think let's work with the nature of the problem. We know its complexity. It's likely to come back from time to time depending on larger climatic situations. We know that in an El Niño year, when the ground is particularly dry, sometimes it's not possible to avoid forest fires completely. But certainly for this year and in many cases in previous years the triggering problems are man-made in that it is the easiest way to clear forests and plant oil palms. There is an elaborate international process now to certify oil palm that requires the big companies to be responsible and observe clear codes of conduct. And some of these companies are headquartered in Singapore. Some of them are Singapore companies. So we should take a multi-pronged approach. Internationally, where we can help Indonesia overcome this problem, we should act at that level. Regionally in ASEAN, we should do the same, through the corporate sector, or at the government-to-government and parliament-to-parliament levels. We should also teach farmers the techniques to overcome their problems of daily life in a way which is less deleterious to the environment. So yes, we've not succeeded, but we've not failed completely, and we must continue to press on and not lose heart.

SPEAKER: Ms Lee.

MS LEE BEE WAH (ANG MO KIO): Mr Speaker sir, I would like to ask Minister the same question [that I asked Minister Yaacob Ibrahim earlier]: even though the Indonesians have a plan, they are dragging their feet on this. Will Minister take this up with International Organisations like the WHO? Thank you.

MINISTER: I think the important thing is to be effective. It is not just to give emotional satisfaction to our own sense of hurt and grievance. The important thing is to be effective, and if we can be effective without commotion, all the better. But if we need a commotion, we'll have a commotion. But the key is to be effective. And we try very hard at all levels to do all we can. It's not just MEWR's responsibility, but also all the Ministries that have an interest in this. I hope that NGOs and parliamentarians and the corporate sector will all do their bit.

SPEAKER: Mr Low. Last one.

MR LOW THIA KHIANG (HOUGANG): Thank you, Sir. Sir, how does the Minister know that bringing up the issue at international fora, as what Lee Bee Wah suggested, would not be effective? Has he tried to do that?

MINISTER: These issues are raised at the international level from time to time. A few years ago we had raised this at the UN, and if it's necessary and helpful to raise this at the UN or the WHO or any other international forum we will continue to do so. Yes, we have been doing this.

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