Transcript of Minister for Foreign Affairs Dr Vivian Balakrishnan's Live Interview with CNA's Singapore Tonight, 27 February 2023

Dawn Tan (CNA): Singapore is placing multilateralism front and centre as it navigates a global order under strain. Now, closer to home, the city-state is moving to deepen ties with its closest neighbours.  

Jill Neubronner (CNA): Foreign Affairs Minister Vivian Balakrishnan has acknowledged that just as with any friendship, problems will arise from time to time. Dr Balakrishnan himself is here in the studio to weigh in. Welcome, Minister.

Minister: Thank you. 

Neubronner: Now first, earlier today, as you outlined foreign policy objectives both close to home as well as further abroad, how would you assess Singapore’s overall standing today?

Minister: On the diplomatic front, we are in a good spot. Our relations are excellent with the two superpowers, the United States and China, (and) with Europe. We have even been able to sign Free Trade Agreements (FTAs) with the Pacific Alliance and with MERCOSUR down in South America. That is good.

However, the world is in a disrupted, fractious, volatile and dangerous state. There is a hot war in Europe, superpower rivalry has sharpened, there is a pushback against globalisation and economic integration, and all of which, as far as Singapore is concerned, has been the recipe for our peace and prosperity for several decades. This is a time to be watchful.

Tan: Let us talk about our closest neighbour, Malaysia. A very longstanding, historic relationship. You have called the current Prime Minister (PM) Anwar Ibrahim an “old friend”.

Minister: Yes.

Tan: How does that impact the way that Singapore and Malaysia work bilaterally?

Minister: PM Anwar is an old friend of Singapore, and if you look at the Cabinets on both sides, some of us have known our counterparts for decades. I think that familiarity helps avoid misunderstandings, miscommunication, and hopefully avoids mishaps. That is a plus.

Having said that, we will always be the closest neighbour to Malaysia, and in any close relationship, from time to time, issues will arise. But a key point is not to allow any single issue to derail or overshadow the entirety of that relationship. Right now it is good, and I would add, it actually strengthened during (the) COVID-19 (pandemic) because although the Causeway was closed, we did not let each other down. Supply chains were intact and continued to flow both ways. Actually, that reservoir of goodwill and trust deepened during COVID-19.

Neubronner: The reservoir of goodwill is there. You have had long ties there as well. But what is it going to look like moving forward in terms of trajectory? What if these issues like Pedra Branca come in? Will they derail or perhaps change the direction of those ties?

Minister: First of all, on the issue of sovereignty over Pedra Branca, that has been settled conclusively. It is Singapore’s. You are aware that we had commenced some development work basically to improve our ability to improve maritime safety, search and rescue capability, and also to protect Pedra Branca as sea levels rise as an impact of climate change.

Malaysia has some objections, some reservations. Right now, we are dealing with those concerns, addressing their questions, and we hope to recommence work in the near future.

Tan: You mentioned in Parliament today that there is a deadline, but you did not want to share the specifics? 

Minister: I am not in a position to share that publicly. Clearly, we are not going to wait for an indefinite period of time. We do need to get on with the development work. It is essential work, and it is entirely in keeping with international law and our sovereign rights.

Tan: And climate change is not going to wait, is it? 

Minister: No, it is not going to wait. 

Tan: Let us turn to your recent visit to China, Minister. You met Foreign Minister Qin Gang there for three and a half hours, we understand – long meeting. What was your sense of this new team’s approach to couple of things: firstly the ongoing US-China tensions, and also to the Ukraine-Russia war, and of course, the call by China for peace.

Minister: It was a good visit to China. China is clearly reopening post-COVID-19, and as I have said earlier, there were even traffic jams after I landed, which is a good sign.

Yes, there is a new foreign minister. I would characterise it as continuity. I do not think you are going to see any radical departures in foreign policy on the part of China. China has to deal with multiple challenges on both domestic and external fronts. You have mentioned Ukraine, but in fact, the even bigger issue is really the contest between the United States and China. That contest has sharpened, and it is quite easy for competition to spill over into sharpened rivalry, and ultimately even the worry about conflict. That is number one.

Neubronner: You know, you mentioned the rivalry between the US and China sharpening. We, in Singapore, you as leaders, have been very consistent in saying, “You must not be made to choose sides, you will not be choosing sides between either”. But that must be getting increasingly hard to say and to maintain that stance. So, I am wondering – worst case scenario: when one party decides to issue perhaps an ultimatum, what will you say then?

Minister: We will refuse to choose for as long as possible. The reason for that is that we are in a unique position. America is the largest investor in Singapore. We are one of the largest investors in China. America is our largest trading partner in services. China is our largest trading partner for goods.

Culturally, linguistically, historically, we are optimally placed at this interface; if America and China get along, that is a “plus-plus” for Singapore. But because of this unique location – and I mean it figuratively – this advantage, these strengths can also become easily become a vulnerability if they actually really come to blows.

I say exactly the same thing in Beijing as I say in Washington. I tell them: “Look, I am representing a tiny city-state in the heart of Southeast Asia. Trade is three times our GDP. Our focus is on economics, on development, on peace and security in Asia. To the extent that both of you can work out your differences and get a real stake in the peace and prosperity of Asia and thereby help create a stable balance of power.”

That is what we are after, so I say the same thing and I will keep saying it. It is important for not just me, but for all Singaporeans to understand why Singapore has to take a consistent position. Realistic, but we still have to hold on to this position because that is the way we will advance and secure our long-term national interests.

Tan: You also spoke in Parliament today, Minister, about deepening relations with three of our closest neighbours. That was very interesting to me. I know we have good relations with them, but the fact that you said you would like them to be deepened. You also said that agreements that will bring tangible benefits are well under way; I will not press you on what those agreements are, but what I wanted is your take on this issue of the way in which the world has become so multipolar. We have alliances, we have alignments now: how important is it for Singapore to deepen its alignments with our three closest neighbours, bearing in mind that it does not touch ASEAN centrality and unity?

Minister: Which particular neighbours do you want me to expound on? 

Tan: Malaysia, Indonesia and Brunei?

Minister: Those are our immediate inner circle – Malaysia, Indonesia and Brunei. Underpinning all these are the people-to-people ties. History, language, culture, blood goes across these borders. That is number one.

Number two – economics. The better we integrate and maximise opportunities, and not just in yesterday’s technologies but emerging areas – in green, in digital arenas – the better. The point is not to get caught up fighting yesterday’s battles, but to have a clear-eyed focus on the future and the opportunities for our people. Frankly, that is what the people in Singapore, Indonesia, Malaysia (and) Brunei expect. That is what political leaders ought to deliver. So far, based on my interactions with both the longstanding leaders as well as new leaders elected across the border – I think everyone is focused on this. I am hopeful.

Tan: So, there is strong appetite for that alignment?

Minister: Yes. As I have said, ultimately, I think that is what our people demand. That surely should be a very good motivation for our political leaders.

Neubronner: To end this discussion, let us bring it back home because the work that you do, the work that your Ministry does is very often not seen in the public eye. It is always behind the scenes. But you did touch today on the importance of the home front, themes like public trust, unity. Why is that so important?

Minister: It is a paradox of foreign policy that the more successful you are, things appear calm and easy, and you do not see the furious paddling beneath the surface as the swan glides across the pond.

I will come back to the basics. What makes my job easier every day, is knowing that Singapore is strong, united, cohesive, successful. Without that, no amount of sophistry and words would mean anything. That is number one.  Foreign policy begins at home, and it is because we are successful and united.

Number two is that we do not choose sides – coming back to that point – but we uphold principles. By consistently upholding principles, from time to time, I may have a difference of opinion or perspective with one superpower or the other, but they know it is because we are advancing the long-term national interests of our country. That makes my job so much easier.

The third point is they know we will always make common cause with as many countries as possible for mutual benefit. We do not mean to harm anyone’s core interests.

Finally, you know we are champions for international law, for multilateralism, for economic integration because we believe that interdependence and mutual support for each other, especially in times of crisis, is a formula for peace and prosperity. It has served us well so far, but at this particular moment in time when the world is facing pressure, the erosion of globalisation, (the) rules-based world order; when there is a pushback against economic integration, our approach becomes all the more essential. We need to double down and get everybody both within Singapore as well as our external partners to understand (that) this what Singapore stands for. This is what we will continue to advance, and let us work together. Despite the fact that this is a dangerous world, there is a rainbow over the horizon.

Tan: Foreign policy is national security and national policy as well.

Minister: Absolutely.

Tan: Minister Balakrishnan, thank you very much for coming to the studio and chatting with us this evening.

Minister: Thank you for having me. 

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